10:56:45 09/28/2007 - iPhone tard

Listen, speaking of iPhone must-haves, this is the killer accessory: the iBucket.
http://smartstartup.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/09/the-ultimate-ip.html

09:30:38 09/26/2007 - Patti

I believe that you are deeply and profoundly wrong in the way you're approaching this problem.

If you don't like the lack of third party apps, vote with your wallet. When you willingly spend money for crippleware, you're sending the wrong message to the company"> you're telling them it's OK if they release a system that won't allow third-party development, because you'll buy it anyway.

Vote with your wallet. Don't buy crippleware. If it doesn't meet your needs, don't buy it.

I personally will not buy an iPhone because it would be a huge step backwards for me. My Treo has 3G data, can be tethered and used as a modem, and lets me install whatever bloody software I want on the device. I briefly considered the iPhone when it came out, but I couldn't see spending money for something so limited. A sexy UI doesn't make up for lack of capability.

08:47:17 09/26/2007 - what

It's people like OS2Guy who scare me in this world... Uninformed, uneducated/fearful of something they dont understand.. Just wtf are you ranting about? Jail.. your investment... You aren't special. Your $600/$400 whichever it is aren't either... And what are you talking about jeopardized? LOL, I hope you are under 18 and are not in the tech industry. I feel we should round up all the dumb people on earth sometimes and put them on an island by themselves. Hackers are all over and it is not a crime. Own personal gain? People want to make it a much more useful product. Most if not all of the wonderful applications that have been developed and are available for free.. I just dont understand your comment. It is ridiculously stupid.

03:37:09 09/26/2007 - willgonz

Apple buys http://iphone.nullriver.com/beta/ the community writes apps for the iPhone and submits it. It is then blessed worthly and then added to the list. This will also allow bugs to be worked out.
Unlocks will not be allowed and AT&T get its way.

Look, I rather have the ability to run 3rd party apps then have it taken away because people are trying to unlock the phone to be used on other networks.

02:55:44 09/26/2007 - rock

If the Apple allowed 3rd party apps, my choice of carriers, and a method of sync that did not involve iTunes (say open specs?) I would buy one in a second.

02:54:05 09/26/2007 - act2

Come on Apple...don't fight the system...

01:59:23 09/26/2007 - LogicAJV

Apple is doing something really crazy. They say you are leasing the iphone, but you have to pay 400-600 dollars for it. I know don't know about you, but leases have 2 requirements. One they loan you the equipment. The second you pay a fee to use the service and if the service doesn't function, the company has to replace the equipment free of charge.

The iphone can't be both, an electrionic purchased item and a leased item. You can't pay for a service and also have to pay for the equipment to use the service. Then have them tell you how you can use the equipment you just bought. iphones need to either be rented or bought but not both. I don't think iphones come with a lifetime warrenty, therefore, I bought the iphone and I can use it how I want. Apple therefore has no right to tell people how they can use, unlock, use it as spare parts, etc. their iphones.

11:39:57 09/26/2007 - EW

I just want to point out it's been nearly 6 years, with no iPod SDK relesed either. Apple likes closed systems. They don't care about 3rd party developers.

09:32:43 09/26/2007 - anon

I love the iPhone. I was one of the first to get it, waiting in line to no avail at an ATT shop, then driving two hours the next day to pick one up at an Apple store.

I love it.

But there are tons of powerful applications missing "> a to do list, for instance "> that really limit the functionality of this fantastic tool.

While Apple may always make the *best* applications for the iPhone, you are unnecessarily "> and recklessly "> limiting the potential of this revolutionary device.

I want to see the iPhone take over the market place; not fade into obsolescence as soon as a more open device (the 'gPhone', perhaps) hit's the market place.

You were the first mover in the next generation of mobile devices. Closed platforms are a thing of the past. Open up, PLEASE!

WE NEED AN OFFICIAL 3RD PART SDK!

Thanks,

09:10:25 09/26/2007 - onezero

Granted, Java and Swing aren't ideal, but they are better than AJAX!

07:51:50 09/26/2007 - A Nony Mous


I'm all about an open iPhone. I've been lusting after one since the announcement, yet I didn't buy one until after 3rd party apps became available. Unfortunately, I didn't wait quite long enough, because I paid $600 and then had to spend three days of hell with AT&T trying to get them to make the frigging voicemail work. In the end, I cancelled service and threw the thing in a drawer. Yes, it remained unlocked, and I could have used it, but I didn't because I don't want to carry more than one electronic device in my pocket, and that was my trusty old Motorolla v360 on T-Mobile.

I didn't even start to use the thing until the SIM locking fell, but that's when the party began. (FYI, T-Mobile sucks the least of all providers.)

I've gotta say, I love my hacked iPhone. I love being able to ssh into and out of it, mounting the filesystem with FUSE, running my own apps (only Perl so far, as I haven't dove into UiKit development yet) But I've got to add that all these apps crash the phone a fair bit, and battery life sucks.

Am I bashing the iPhone or the iPhone developers? Hell no! I'm a software developer myself, and I understand that when you open a system up, even a stable, well-designed one, you are allowing for the possiblity of crashes and unwanted behavior. I understand what I'm getting myself into by jailbreaking and installing 3rd party apps.

The problem is that most people simply don't understand this.

As a long-time computer user (my first computer was an Apple ][plus) and a long-time Unix user (I upgraded from the Apple ][plus to a Unix box) I appreciate good software design, and the iPhone is just as beautiful "under the hood" as it is on the surface. it's a crime that, "officially" we cannot play with this. If you're not a geek, particularly a Unix geek, you cannot appreciate just bow beautiful the iPhone really is.

Let's face it. Steve Jobs "gets it." He may be an arrogant prick, but you've got to agree, he understands how to make a beautiful product. Part of what makes a beautiful product is that it doesn't crash. There was a time when embedded devices *never* crashed. Have you ever seen your microwave oven crash? Probably not. Unfortunately, this is changing. I owned a DVD player that crashed regularly. My Motorolla v360 crashes occasionally.

While it might be acceptable for your desktop computer to crash occasionally, your phone just can't crash. Ever. Yeah, I know that 90% of the world uses Windows, and is used to suffering from all that bullfecal matter, but that's not how it's supposed to be.

The fact of the matter is that the iPhone is still under *major* development inside Apple. What we see with the current iPhone is only the tip of the iceberg. Looking at the iPhone internals, you can see hints of where it is going.

Apple hasn't released an SDK because it isn't at release quality yet! In fact, it probably isn't even finished yet. The iPhone SDK is only stable enough to develop the functionality that comes with the phone as it comes from the factory. If Apple had to wait for a release quality SDK before introducing the iPhone, we wouldn't see the iPhone for another year, at least.

Reality check time. (In other words, here is where I call you out.)

You're proposing Java and Swing as "an acceptable development platform"? Give me a sticking break! Java has been out for what, ten years now and they *still* haven't gotten the sandbox to work properly. Java apps *still* lock up the VM, and the VM *still* locks up the host. Java apps still run balls slow on my Core 2 Duo box. Can you think of what this means on an iPhone? Have you stopped to think about battery life? I think not....

Look: It sucks that we don't have a sanctioned SDK to play with. I might even give my left nut for one, if given the opportunity. But I understand why Apple cannot release one right now. I understand why Apple has to take the "official" stance it has on iPhone hacking.

For comparison, we can look at what Microsoft has done with it's embedded offerings. Have you looked at the crap they've released? I'm not talking just WinCE here. That's just an obvious example here. MS has announced and then essentially orphaned so many embedded product lines I can't even recall them all.

I'm fairly certain that when it's ready, we'll get one. And there are other issues, too. Let's not forget the estimated $360 that Apple receives from AT&T over the life of a two year contract. That's some serious dough, and nobody in their right mind would use AT&T if they had the choice.

Oh well, enough ranting. I could continue, but I need to get back to work "> hacking on my iPhone. One final note before I go: As long as hacking the iPhone is illegitimate, a hacked iPhone will be much cooler than a stock one. Having an iPhone at a party was cool for what, a couple of weeks? An iPhone running ssh with a little "T-Mobile" up in the corner is still cool...

But really, I won't be happy until it's running Emacs. ;-)

-p.

08:29:14 09/26/2007 - Drew

Apple wants to maintain control over the experience, ok I get it- but they control the interface, and for that I am grateful.

I'm not going to hold their feet to the fire if the stuff I install sucks.

They provided a great box, how about they let me use it the way I see fit?

07:10:27 09/26/2007 - everybody

OS2Guy, You're an idiot.

08:11:34 09/26/2007 - WTF

Ok first of all having an iPhone hacked is perfectly safe! Even if you invested money on it. I am 7 and i am a hard woeking man and dont make as much as other people do. But i took the liberty to be one of the many first to test it out. Even if it does screw up I'd just use the iPhone restore button. Ether as youcant lose. So far I got over 10 games installed and I enjoy having a gps application and game application to entertain me.

08:16:14 09/26/2007 -

That is rediculous, apple is just charging for every thing you want to do with your iphone.

you want to have custom ringtones? its possible to do it but how stupid is it to pay 99cents for the song and 99cents for converting it to a ringtone? you cant make one by yourself?

I support all you hackers.. keep up the good work..

08:03:45 09/26/2007 - Mahony

OS2GUY, you are freaking hilarious lol. you do not understand why people would want 3rd party apps? The only reason apple does not want third party apps is because of the MONEY. They would claim mp3's would destroy the phone if they were not getting paid for the mp3's. Do not let any company determine what is best for you. Do not get sucked into their greedy babble.

08:04:44 09/26/2007 - Kiuze

First they should start to sell it worldwide (all countries with gsm networks) without operator deals (unlocked).

I can't buy one since I live in wrong country. And since it's illegal to sell pre-3G phones locked here iPhone won't be available for long time. And company pays my phone bill so I can't buy one even when 3G model is introduced if it's locked :-(

I really hate Apple for this. F* you Steve Jobless.

07:38:00 09/26/2007 - iPhone guy

Apple will and probably already has let some 3rd party developers develop software (i.e. games) for the iPhone, but will probably never let individual developers do so. It's all over $$. If they did that, developers could develop apps that would take away from AT&T and Apple's profits, like VOIP apps, free SMS, ringtones, ect.

I'd like them to introduce a safe SDK for 3rd party apps, because EDGE is too slow to run WEB 2.0 apps, but I just don't see it happening, Apple has gotten way too greedy these days to risk losing any power of their profits.

07:38:17 09/26/2007 - ilikemyrealname

I was moved by your article. This is what I wrote to Apple:

I think it would be really great to let 3rd party devs work on the iPhone with an SDK, not just in Safari. It's a great device/platform, but it will give both the device and Apple more respect as how serious the company is about community and development. Closing it off is like putting fun and creativity in a box. Let us expand your already great product to something even better the way we'd like to see it, not just the way Apple feels it should be.

Apple, you make the coolest gear, hands down, but you are not the end all to what we as customers want. Even your own OS has grown by watching what other apps devs have created. Please let them do the same for the iPhone.

My vote is SDK! :)

Will

07:17:12 09/26/2007 - youaredumb

no whackos as crazy as you OS2Guy - if we left all development up to the major companies we would still be using os2... we need third party developers.

As far as your investment goes you may want to get a new financial adviser...

07:02:23 09/26/2007 - Bing

OS2Guy,

Lay off the crack. If someone else unlocks their iPhone, no one forces you to, and your phone is in no way voided of its warrenty.

That said, the article seems to be ASKING Apple to allow 3rd party apps (as you said, "unless they are sanctioned by Apple themselves"). He's asking Apple to sanction them.

Wow, some people are thick.

06:59:58 09/26/2007 - lolfaggot

It's our phone retard we payed 400$ for it, it's not your investment it's the consumers.

06:49:34 09/26/2007 - A Guy

OS2Guy you must know something I don't about the Iphone, and hacking I general so I have a few questions.
First how does someone else adding third party apps lessen your investment? Second how would someone else opening their phone put your phone in danger? Thirdly what personal gains could someone get by releasing free 3rd party apps? And lastly I think you need to cover your Iphone in tinfoil so the "whackos" can't steal your children.

Oh and realize many of the best things that have come out of the tech industry started as hacks. Like oh the first mac hacked together in a attached garage.

Heres a link for you reading pleasure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_I

06:42:32 09/26/2007 - phreakydeeky

@OS2Guy

OS 2? WTF, you work for IBM?

Anyway, 3rd party apps can only be good for the iPhone. Your investment is never jeopardized by people hacking the phone, only enhanced. More applications, more functionality, more people want it. Did you fail investments 101?

Unlocking will only put more money in your pocket as well.

Your logic fails, and I'm only too happy to say, so do you.

06:52:19 09/26/2007 - iphonebuglist

I have been ready for changes for some time. I even have a website dedicated to feature requests and bugs for the iPhone.

http://www.iphonebuglist.com


">Tom

04:14:46 09/26/2007 - bryant

When a control-freak, another word for a sadist, comes out with the age-old trick of dividing others to achieve a self-gratifying goal, like making money, and fortune leads to demands for fame and thereafter, immortality, you have chaos and it is within that chaos that the sadist maintains control. Pitting the deluded [relativities] against those who are able to see [absolutes]. To clarify the situation for those who seldom see beyond others? faults, and everybody has faults aplenty, take the example of a restaurant. If 99 patrons out of 100 are satisfied with their soup, does that mean that the chap with a fly in his has to listen to the standing ovation of the 99 others who did not have a fly in theirs, thereby diminishing the claim of the victim having bad soup? Only if the chef says that it seldom happens to avoid owning up to his mistake and mistakes are made, deliberate or otherwise, due to the lack of respect for others.

Those who can?t see through the veil of sadists using statistics to trivialise others experience of injustice are those who buy into fashion and they do that because lunatics, another name for those lacking in self-respect, need to fill that void through the act of worship through association. These masochists are the target of the sadists and when you buy into a sadist?s ?territory?, you?ve accepted their conditions of worship. Which nutter/lunatic will buy a car that is only steerable when the designer is praised? The fashionite. You can?t change these sadists for they are selling to masochists, not to normal self-respecting human beings and this theme exists in EVERYTHING that people do, including ?elections?, ?democracy?, ?war? or whatever and wherever that division is required. Division is used by Nature to allude to there being evolution and devolution, not for us to worship or denigrate. Leave the sadists to their masochists for no one breathes for another.

In summary, don?t buy fashionable JUNK for such items have the control-freak?s genetic marker all over it. Satisfaction only exists when the love is unconditional, and not the self-love of a euphoric sadist or the unrequited ecstatic love of a masochist. Judge yourself well and then there is no need to be bonded to others by judging them for the lunatic?s compulsion to conduct a bacteria count of his dustbin every minute is to appease his sadistic master. Not for his missing self-respect.

06:15:46 09/26/2007 - blackbrutha

email Steve Jobs directly to get results.

Sjobs@apple.com

05:57:06 09/26/2007 - app

Why would you jail hackers OS2Guy? What is illegal about hacking a phone?

05:47:06 09/26/2007 - OS2s voice of reason

How is it that people who are working to "open" the iPhone's capabilities to those of us who are interested in "using" the device are infringing on your purchase? (I'm not even going to respect your claim of "investment")

05:49:15 09/26/2007 - Doug

Left my feedback. I don't care about the people that unlocked the phone, but third-party applications should be allowed to run without the fear of "bricking" the iPhone!

05:47:58 09/26/2007 - Snuggles

I totally agree with the blogger.

I love my iPhone dearly, like I've never been attached to a phone before.

BUT it lacks some core functionality that I badly want. Functionality that I could probably code in a day.

05:50:29 09/26/2007 - Jazzdogg

Every hacker jailed? That's fairly extreme... I don't think you're seeing the full picture here. What makes the mac so appealing? Yeah the hardware is nice, but people love it for the software. What most people don't notice is a LOT of software for the mac wasn't created by Apple. Take iTunes for instance, a huge percentage of the application was created by third party products. Apple needs to remember it's developers are what make the OSX system so good, thus they SHOULD NOT leave them out in the dark with the iPhone...!

05:21:39 09/26/2007 - Windows Sucks

Apple wants the phone to just work! That makes sense. And 99% of the people out there who buy their phones will use it as is, no big deal.

For us who want to upgrade, install third party apps etc. Dont threaten us! I can understand saying that if you break your phone due to this that they will not cover the warranty. But don't make me feel like you are going to go out of your way to make the phones not work!

The whole SDK issue I am sure has a lot more to do with apple wanting to secure more money out of iPhone users.

Oh well if I find out Apple bricked my iPhone on purpose, I will NEVER buy another apple product EVER again!

05:48:43 09/26/2007 - none

if thats not an option to have a third party apps.
Im not going to buy one.

Thanks your almost costumer!!

05:19:37 09/26/2007 - websyndicate

OS2Guy is Mr. Play it safe lol.

05:22:43 09/26/2007 - Common Sense

I hate the iPhone hack stuff, its wrong. Are the people hacking the iPhone really care about the common folks? I DON'T TRUST HACKERS.

Third party apps, I see no innovation or creativity from these developer, except complaining. Apple knows how to make great apps, the rest of the developer community is making crap.

05:21:42 09/26/2007 - malakas

OS2Guy,

What type of "personal gains" do you see these 3rd party app. developers trying to make that can jeopardize any "investment" you might have?

They're writing software. Do all the 3rd party developers for the Mac jeopardize your investment in apple? Right, no.

05:12:11 09/26/2007 - irrelevant

OS2Guy - you are a cretin and an idiot. That is all.

04:56:17 09/26/2007 - Cacho de Castelar

Here is the Apple feedback form for the iphone:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

I love my 3rd party apps, Springboard, Apollo IM and WeDict (dictionary) are the best!!!

05:01:31 09/26/2007 - hermes

OS2Guy; you're funny.

04:44:22 09/26/2007 - jouster

"I understand that things take time, but we are going on 3 months with the iPhone with no real SDK".

Time has nothing to do with it. There is no SDK because Apple does not want to release one.

04:32:21 09/26/2007 - PhonicUK

I suspect when he says "I have a lot of money invested in the iPhone" it sounds a lot more like he has Apple shares...

04:24:28 09/26/2007 - the-riznich

That is the point of a proper SDK. With a standard SDK the phones wouldn't break. The phones are breaking because people are working backwards as they attempt to develop 3rd party apps - sorta guess check. Third party apps are rich and invaluable on the apple macintosh platform - half the apps I run are third party and they all use apple's developer SDK for designing the framework of their app.

I agree that something needs to be done around development on the iPhone - the paranoid mentality is what lost Apple it's market-share in the 90's - lets not amble down that path again.

04:05:53 09/26/2007 - MJ

I think the problem apple are having is that to allow native 3rd party support would require a substancial amount of effort on their part.
From what is said here:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/07/24/first-iPhone-vulnerability-found_1.html?source=NLC-MOBILEHARDWARE&cgd=2007-07-25
The iphone runs all apps in the superuser account which gives each of them unbarred access to all the os.
This would be a major problem if apple officially supported 3rd party apps because of the obvious security concerns.
I get the feeling that this is no small task to change....

04:06:44 09/26/2007 - OSXguy

paranoia is not just a hobby anymore for some people, eh OS2Guy? I for one want 3rd party apps. I'm not a paranoid person who is going to walk in fear. I'm smart enough to do a little research before I install an app to see how it performs and what the issues are. and so far I've got about 20 3rd party apps on my iPhone. Go team!

04:11:18 09/26/2007 - Schizo

In all fairness Apple never clearly stated that they would allow 3rd party apps. I personally won't be buying an iPhone for that reason and a few others. The fact is that Apple / AT&T already have your money and they are under no obligation to do anything about it, why should they when millions of people are waiting to buy their own iPhone.

04:06:50 09/26/2007 - Lyph3

Their own personal gains? Like what, being able to play old NES games on your iPhone?

12:19:59 09/26/2007 - onezero

OS2Guy, you don't have to install 3rd party applications unless you choose to.

No one is going to make you do it. But for those who want to, we should have the choice.

09:42:21 09/25/2007 - OS2Guy

Sorry guys, but I have a lot of money invested in the iPhone and I am totally against third party apps being introduced, unless they are sanctioned by Apple themselves. There are simply too many whackos out there who want to take control of the iPhone, to make it "open", for their own personal gains.

Every time they hack the iPhone my investment is jeopardized. I want it stopped and I want every hacker jailed.